Games Discussion & Community Multiplayer Matches

[GX-WarSpite]

Discussion thread for upcoming article on the subject.

[constable2]

I think I've already put in my 2 cents!

[oddyssey]

Somewhere along the lineage of Half Life’s life, someone at Valve noticed that Half Life itself was being cracked and even turned out through “Warez” channels. Even with the security they built in to it there were people playing their game, which didn’t pay them their dues. They are even playing it online through servers that didn’t bother with validating the software. So that multiple people could play Half Life online with the same exact registration code.

 I think this little bit of knowledge kept Valves owner Gabe Newell awake at night. It must have come to him one night in a dream, after watching the movie George Orwell’s 1984 and some documentaries on Communist Russia. The dream must have seemed sound and would solve his biggest issues at the moment. Warez.

The Dream was Steam.

Steam would solve his biggest problem. They wouldn’t be able to play any games with out the correct Serial Numbers. They would be no servers allowing cracked codes. There wouldn’t even be anyone playing any game even in single player mode without Gabe and Valve knowing about it. This would solve everything. Gabe could sit back and decide who to let play and who not to, Gabe has a rather large book of names, aliases and IP Addresses from people who posted on their boards or were playing Half Life on a special “cracked” server, setup just to gather this information.

This is how it was for quite a while. Then one infamous day Gabe’s world came crashing down. His magical world where he alone was God was vanishing before his eyes. Some how, someone managed to hack in to the Valve Network and steal Half Life 2 right from under their noses. What’s worse is they seemed to have done it right through Gabe’s very own email account using some flaws in Outlook’s preview pane (Which oddly enough has been a known issue for years and years before this happened).

The truth about everything was out, out in some thief’s hands. Half Life 2 wasn’t nearly done. Valves partners could find out he was lying to them. He had to act quickly, he needed to cover as much as he could and save as much as possible, what he needed to do…was to go public and admit what happened, minus some details about where Half Life 2 really was in the development cycle and to make what was stolen a little less clear.

“Cover your ass!” he repeated to himself before, during and after the press conference. CYA or it is all going to go away.

The End

I wasn’t there. I didn’t hack in to Valve and steal his software. I never even downloaded it or played it. I don’t really know the truth about it, but I have a very American state of mind where conspiracies run rampant in everything. I do know that public opinion and people publicly stating they wouldn’t buy HL2 because of Steam’s lack of usability for LAN parties and even Single player games was why Gabe changed his mind and now allows “Off-line” play.

I think it is Gabe’s fault, thanks to us!!!! But not all of us are pirites.

[Millerboy]

I think the RIAA should use Steam as a model for playing music. No one would be able to play their CD without the RIAA knowing about it.

[Zeatrix]

I don't have pirated software on my machine , not even WinXP or Office... beat that...

[constable2]

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Millerboy wrote:
I think the RIAA should use Steam as a model for playing music. No one would be able to play their CD without the RIAA knowing about it.

---

What about portable CD players and cars?  Needless to say, that's a completely retarded idea!

[Anticipat3]

Jakub really is brain dead...

Gee, how about the buddy system? Or the fact that we no longer have to apply over a gig of patches, and keep around a single player game we don't play? How about the fact that it actually runs at 1280x1024 and not 1280x960? How about the fact that you can have a floating console window? How about those multiple camera angles? An in-game IM system, so that you can communiate without having 8 different IM clients?

In case you hadn't realized, people like such things, that's why they used Gamespy... Is there something wrong with Valve building a system (which they give away FOR FREE) that incorporates all that without adware or fees? Is there anything STOPPING you from playing an older version of CS?

Don't get me wrong -- I really hate Gabe and Valve, and I'm laughing all the while I see HL2 get delayed, but Steam is a great system, and you've really proved it by writing a whole article and really finding nothing legitimate to complain about. Firingsquad went off my favorites a few months ago, and it's getting less and less frequent visits these days, and articles like this are the reason. Pointless garbage.

[navyseal]

Geez....not the best way to start as a new member, but I have seen stranger.

[In-Tel]

Whatever the case is, I'am happy with Steam.  Nothing remotely unpleasent has happened from Steam so far, nothing but good stuff.

[Swaid]

"The utility actively denies attempts to play Valve games and mods, even offline, without a Steam connection."

This statement is now null and viod as of the latest update. If you cant connect to the Steam network, the client side asks if you want to play in the "offline" mode.

[oddyssey]

---

Swaid wrote:

"The utility actively denies attempts to play Valve games and mods, even offline, without a Steam connection."

This statement is now null and viod as of the latest update. If you cant connect to the Steam network, the client side asks if you want to play in the "offline" mode.

---

Well that answers my main question! But it still tries to connect? I can't just double click and icon and play a Single player game in my "Valve" games? Maybe I will try it again using Half Life as a model but last time I did, Steam nuked the Half Life game to the point it was UNPLAYABLE unless it was through Steam. I didn't pay $40 for Half Life so some ass program would destroy the installation and dictate how I play it, what MODs I add to it or even what Expansion packs I install on it. All of which is exactly what Steam did before this last major update.

As far as I know HL2 requires Steam. Hmmm offline play only if I ask for Valves permission to do so, sounds craptastic still!

[firingsucks]

Look at the number of games that have been cancelled recently.

You were on the ball till you said this little comment. Maybe the reason games are canceled because they 1) suck 2) blatantly copy from another game or 3) both said previous. Like somebody said, this industry is on auto pilot. How many FPS, RTS, and RPG's can we sustain without finally pushing back?

Look at the board game industry how a superior industry has gone under. Yes board games do have a finally of wanting to ultimately "win" the game, but look how original the board games are: Mouse trap, jinga, monopoly, life, uno, trivial pursuit, etc...the list goes on. Said board game do look similar in style, but their content is very much different.

And as much as the fanboy in me wanted it to be, HALF-LIFE 2 WOULD OF NEVER SHIPPED SEP 2003.

[constable2]

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anticipat3 wrote:
Jakub really is brain dead...

Gee, how about the buddy system? Or the fact that we no longer have to apply over a gig of patches, and keep around a single player game we don't play? How about the fact that it actually runs at 1280x1024 and not 1280x960? How about the fact that you can have a floating console window? How about those multiple camera angles? An in-game IM system, so that you can communiate without having 8 different IM clients?

In case you hadn't realized, people like such things, that's why they used Gamespy... Is there something wrong with Valve building a system (which they give away FOR FREE) that incorporates all that without adware or fees? Is there anything STOPPING you from playing an older version of CS?

Don't get me wrong -- I really hate Gabe and Valve, and I'm laughing all the while I see HL2 get delayed, but Steam is a great system, and you've really proved it by writing a whole article and really finding nothing legitimate to complain about. Firingsquad went off my favorites a few months ago, and it's getting less and less frequent visits these days, and articles like this are the reason. Pointless garbage.

---

That's kinda like someone giving me a knife in my side for free.  Didn't really ask for it and was fine before it.

[Millerboy]

Half-Life 2 already has the nomination for Best PC Game of the Year. It has that much publicity and buzz around it that it can never flop. Kids will rush the stands to buy the game the first day it comes out.

[constable2]

But if it blows and no one plays it.  It flops.  They might make alot of money on it initially, but it needs to sustain sales.  Like HL1 did because of CS and such.  The game can blow, the mods will make it good.  Unless Valve gets communist this time around.  Which wouldn't surprise me.

[SuicideInvoice]

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Millerboy wrote:
Half-Life 2 already has the nomination for Best PC Game of the Year. It has that much publicity and buzz around it that it can never flop. Kids will rush the stands to buy the game the first day it comes out.

---

You're confusing game of the year with sales.  HL2 will sell big, yes.  But If it sucks, no decent publication will name it game of the year.

[Millerboy]

Of course, if it sucked no one will name it Game of the Year. But I didn't say that they would. I said that HL2 would be nominated as game of the year. Every single publication and online gaming website will consider it as one of the top choices, whether it sucks or not. I'm 100% sure that they're going to use the same formula as the first Half-Life.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." So Half-Life 2 will have an immersive and fun storyline as well as the interactive gameplay.

[Deurges]

I can truly say that Steam stinks... I've had it for a while and as a big CS fan I wanted to see the new version of CS... So I downloaded Steam... First I had to download the new updates and stuff.. Oke.. no problem.. Started it.. No servers... new filters... still no servers... Couple of hours later... hhmmm 4 servers.. I died trying.. Even after playing 12 hours of CS a day I could not manage to get used to hicks in the connection...

After 2 months of not playing on Steam I clicked on it once more to see if it improved.. It took my almost 5 hours to download the updates/patches and other random crap from Valve... When I thought Steam was ready to use it started the downloads again!..... Trying to control myself I quickly uninstalled Steam and any other Valve game I had on my pc...

Atm I only run CS and Half-Life on my laptop with all the "normal" updates... No more online CS.. Only LAN atm... It was a good idea trying to control all the cheaters and such with Steam, but nothing beats wacking a d00d realtime when he cheats and cut his connection on a LAN.... Makes life more fun....

Valve should try to improve their games and make sure they make it to their release dates instead of creating something that crashes when you start it.. Next thing will be that Valve and Microsoft will combine and make a build-in Steam in Windows... 'cause with Steam they wanna control too much.. they just do.. But they can't... never...

Message Edited by Deurges on 03-10-2004 12:55 AM

[Goofus Maximus]

And now steam is going to roll back it's latest update, because of (GASP!!!) crashing bugs in the game!

I don't like the idea of bit torrent tech in steam either. I have upload limits with my ISP, and I don't want to be ... er... steamrollered into exceeding them. In addition to which, I only turn steam on when I want to play, which means my bandwidth is going to be blasted whenever I try to play. At that point, I'm not even going to leave steam on my computer. I've not played a steam game in a month now, due to lag on DoD servers, and bad gameplay on CS, and constant crashing in Firearms.

Actually, I've been playing the Sacred demo mostly, lately. I guess I needed a break from FPS games...

[Brute]

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Millerboy wrote:

I said that HL2 would be nominated as game of the year. Every single publication and online gaming website will consider it as one of the top choices, whether it sucks or not.

---

You mean like how every single publication and online gaming website considered Daikatana as one of the top choices for game of the year after it was released?

[Hoopla]

---

Navyseal wrote:
Geez....not the best way to start as a new member, but I have seen stranger.

---

Why?  It says nowhere on this forum that he has to agree with Firing Squad’s opinions.

Now, I agree that he could probably word things a little better, but regardless, he has a valid point.

[LORD ORION]

Steam is scrap, and it is crap because Valve doesn't have the resources to make it run smoothly.

You can tell because 1)When a major upddate is released, it takes 2 days for everything to get back to normal (imagine what will happen to steam when HL2 is released and people start DLing it using their ATI Coupons)

2)There are ALOT of bugs for somthing that should be pretty effortless to code. So they aren't allocating enough testing resources and/or hiring the best network programming staff.

This link pretty much sums it all up.
http://www.team-lattenzaun.de/steam.swf

[pavlovscow]

I think even Jakub underestimates valve's real goal here.  If you look at the information behind steam it's about cutting out everybody who made money on half-life, directly or indirectly.  Gabe wants control of the distribution of the game, control of the patches, control of the mods, etc.  Yes, every point will be charged.  If you look at where the costs of a gamer are to play an online game and the fragments of money spent per gamer, Valve is only getting a small piece of the pie.  GameSpy is making money on the matching and buddy system if you join their service, Fileplanet provides mods, but fast downloads are a pay service, as with patches.  And valve isn't making that monthly customer revenue. 

If the gamers are ultimately pleased, great.  Valve isn't offering anything that isn't done other places, they are combining popular services, with their game into their game.  Much like Microsoft does.  What I think is underestimated, is what it takes to maintain those services, both with development and maintenance.  These systems take lots of people and lots of money to maintain.  And no one yet is  paying for it.  It ultimately will come from the gamer. 

[navyseal]

---

Hoopla wrote:

---

Navyseal wrote:
Geez....not the best way to start as a new member, but I have seen stranger.

---

Why?  It says nowhere on this forum that he has to agree with Firing Squad’s opinions.

Now, I agree that he could probably word things a little better, but regardless, he has a valid point.

---

I will tell you why, saying Jakub is braindead is very stupid. He is the guy that decides whether or not he is going to let you on the site ever again. That is why. And don't try to start problems.

Message Edited by Navyseal on 03-10-2004 03:56 PM

[GX-WarSpite]

I don't particularly mind someone disagreeing with me, and when it comes to editorials, a little flaming is understood.  It just so happens I tend to ignore the flamer and his argument, unless it creates a prolonged disturbance which impedes further discussion, as is the case right now.  So please, know that people are far more likely to take your argument seriously if you present it in a logical fashion rather than go for ad-hominem attacks.

[tycho316]

Not that valve or anyone else cares, but if hl2 (comes with / requires / automatically installs) steam I for one will not be purchasing the product no matter how many glowing reviews are written for it. I alone control what goes on my computer, not some game publisher who thinks they can sneak this in because their game has the hype. Hl2 will install without said (spyware / leechware / naziware) product being installed or I will NOT buy it.

[firingsucks]

HL2 will have come offline and when you need to patch it you have to, you guessed it, log onto steam.

I dont think the bit torrent will affect us so much as the content servers that Vavle has. I'm pretty sure the people who signed up for content delivery didnt antipcate this much traffic (well, maybe nvidia)...

I, for one will bang the loudest pot if i cannot turn the P2P off GAMES I BOUGHT!!!!

[sp33d]

Ok, I just had to lett you know what I think:

First of all, steam is working, cant say that there is much difference than before (for me), and now that it support offline mode eveything is juuust fine in my steamtown...

And for you people that complained about the slow/broken update that takes houres, do you remember what a new update was like before? Houres of waiting for a fileplanet server to let you download, or you could try to find another server that had available slots, I usaly had to wait 4-5 houres for this, sometimes faster, with steam the maximum time i had to wait was 2 houres....

I think steam can become better, if more content servers are avaiable etc...

The p2p thing kind of freaks my out since I am curently stuck on ISDN...

anyhow GL HF!

[Millerboy]

Steam isn't so bad. I don't know why everyone's complaining. If Valve wants to make a Battle.Net like Blizzard then let them. This isn't the first time that a game company decided to host their own online server.

[sp33d]

Well they dont host online game servers like battle.net, they have made a new distribution and authentication platform, to replace WON (authentication) and new feuters for distribution...

You can put youre own server out there (cant with battle.net)

Message Edited by sp33d on 03-11-2004 11:53 PM

[constable2]

I finally uninstalled steam.  Getting 40fps with triple digit choke on avalanche isn't my particular cup of tea.

[oddyssey]

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Millerboy wrote:
Steam isn't so bad. I don't know why everyone's complaining. If Valve wants to make a Battle.Net like Blizzard then let them. This isn't the first time that a game company decided to host their own online server.

---

Comparing Steam to Battle.net is lame!!!! ABSOLUTLY LAME!!!! You moron! Blizzard gave you lots of choices in how to play their games, Single Player, LAN, Multi player and even Score Card type servers. Hell I could play my single player toon online on the open servers. Battle.net was patrolled by admins who banned people for cheating.

Steam doesn't give you anything but crap and lag.  

[Degas]

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tycho316 wrote:
Not that valve or anyone else cares, but if hl2 (comes with / requires / automatically installs) steam I for one will not be purchasing the product no matter how many glowing reviews are written for it. I alone control what goes on my computer, not some game publisher who thinks they can sneak this in because their game has the hype. Hl2 will install without said (spyware / leechware / naziware) product being installed or I will NOT buy it.

---

Ditto.

I had only heard vague rumors about Steam, then I started looking into Pirates of the Burning Sea.  Initially, I only focused on the fact that the developers of PotBS were going to be able to produce and distribute a game without having to hassle with a "publisher".  Those of us who have seen what these Publishers can do to screw up a good game could only cheer for that concept.  However, when I started looking further into Steam, and reading up on it, I swiftly came to the conclusion that this software will NEVER be installed on any computer I own.

I love computer gaming.  Witness the fact that I am here   However, I will give it up completely before I buy into this horrible concept.  Not only is it an invasion of my privacy, but there are other glaring deficiencies in the technology.  For one thing, it totally screws those of us who are stuck on dialup connections.  Not only are we forced to download hundreds of megabytes online in order to play the game, but we are also unable to burn a disc that will allow us to keep the game in our library and reinstall it on another computer, or on a computer which we have upgraded or formatted.  You can't back up the downloaded game and then throw it into the Steam folder and get it to work.  You have to download the whole damned thing all over again (along with all the game updates, as well as the Steam software and all IT'S updates).

Even if some kind of broadband was offered where I lived, Gabe Newell, Valve Software, and any other developer that buys into this Steam rubbish can still kiss my @ss!

[dafoo]

Unfortunanately I am all for Steam.  I was an avid CS player, then cheats were hitting hard.   I can remember when CS 1.4 came out.  For 3 days I kicked ass, then I was back at the bottom.  Guess what I don't cheat.  Once the cheaters figured out 1.4, CS was back in the crapper.    CS is the worst game I have ever seen for cheating online.   It frustrated me so mch I had to leave to SOF2.  At least they have Punk Buster built in and updates are regular.

I still play CS sometimes, and can do have decent. sometimes..  I think any frustration gamers have to have while playing the game is worth it to keep the cheaters out.   If people want to cheat that is fine, just go do it with servers that are cheating servers.

Someday someone will make a games that has RIAA encrytion in its packets and cheating will be very hard.

X2 is a game like that.  I bought it, and alway install the no-cd crack.  Well, they mod the game if they know you installed something like that, so I could get nowhere in the game(kept losing money).  I had to un-install and re-install it and play with the dang CD.  I'm A little bitter, but if that's what they need to do...then so be it.

Foo

[constable2]

Steam doesn't stop cheaters...that's for god damn sure.  Although, I like playing with cheaters.  They give me some competition.  It's pretty sad that I still shoot them before they shoot me and they're tracking me through the walls.

[Goofus Maximus]

Steam actually hasn't affected cheaters at all. The Valve Anti Cheat tech is a joke. I've finally uninstalled steam for good. At the beginning, I couldn't run steam at all, then it finally got stable enough to occasionally use, but lately, the network performance has gotten gradually crappier and crappier, with ever more bizarre ping and lot's of choke and packet loss. The final straw was the DoD freeze-on-exit bug. I'm not going to wait around for them to add flawed bit-torrent code to steam; bugs in that could be disasterous, security-wise.

I've been spending my time playing demos of the latest games that will be coming out, such as Painkiller, Far Cry, Sacred, and of course UT2k4. These are where my money will be going, and Valve can starve and die, before it will see one more cent from my pocket.

In my opinion, steam's "features" wouldn't be worth it, even if steam WORKED without bugs, since when I want to join a game, I want to just JOIN A GAME; not log onto a service that allows me to pick a game, allow me to play checkers with friends while waiting for a server slot to open, send me off to a website to read news, set my game options globally over all gametypes, or force me to use the latest patch whether I will or no. The fact that steam doesn't even work right in several cases, is just icing on the "SteamSux" Cake!

[Millerboy]

---

constable2 wrote:
Steam doesn't stop cheaters...that's for god damn sure.  Although, I like playing with cheaters.  They give me some competition.  It's pretty sad that I still shoot them before they shoot me and they're tracking me through the walls.

---

I'm a pretty good CS player and when I cheat, my ratio is like 100 kills and 0 deaths. It's so funny. HAHAHA. Try to do what you do to other cheaters to me. I promise you that you won't be able to kill me.

[constable2]

Millerboy: One who flames or flamebaits...he will henceforth be known only as the "Flamer".  You can take the meaning of that however you want.

[Druga Runda]

We are not innocent.

But we still buy games.

= games could take another route to providing contant revenue, and if you have any money you will still buy the original, esp if your game has multiplayer that you would like to play. So singleplayer advert - multiplayer $$$ with consloes supporting singleplayer anyway...

I'd say there is one more annoying but useful way of getting revenue from games "media" and that is advert money - and in that case it would be in the interest of the publisher that the game gets warezed as much as possible, with the gamers taking time out of "standard" media like radio and TV to be forced to watch clever ads while they play... that has a lot of potential and doesn't get anyone in jail.

Plus if games were not pirated they would not be springing up so quickly as a multi-billion $$$ industry as it is, because the people - read kids- who are making this happen like you and me at the beginning have no $$$ to spend on 50$ games, but we get them anyway and get hooked and one day when we make enough $$$ we are not even bothered to pirate but we go in and buy the stuff and there is your revenue. There has to be a balance and other ways of financing, but traditional minded execs cannot see it.

[Sicilianmandolin]

"Gee, how about the buddy system? Or the fact that we no longer have to apply over a gig of patches, and keep around a single player game we don't play? How about the fact that it actually runs at 1280x1024 and not 1280x960? How about the fact that you can have a floating console window? How about those multiple camera angles? An in-game IM system, so that you can communiate without having 8 different IM clients?

In case you hadn't realized, people like such things, that's why they used Gamespy... Is there something wrong with Valve building a system (which they give away FOR FREE) that incorporates all that without adware or fees? Is there anything STOPPING you from playing an older version of CS?

Don't get me wrong -- I really hate Gabe and Valve, and I'm laughing all the while I see HL2 get delayed, but Steam is a great system, and you've really proved it by writing a whole article and really finding nothing legitimate to complain about. Firingsquad went off my favorites a few months ago, and it's getting less and less frequent visits these days, and articles like this are the reason. Pointless garbage."

I made this account just to reply to this message.

It's as simple as this: There is absolutely nothing wrong with your cherished Valve building a system as such.

Yes... nothing wrong if it worked.

Message Edited by Sicilianmandolin on 07-29-2004 12:46 PM